(Clearwisdom.net) New Zealand practitioners recently held a "Falun Dafa Practitioners Validating the Fa" photo exhibit on the campus of Auckland University. During the exhibition, a reporter of the Craccum magazine interviewed practitioner Poutama. The reporter asked questions regarding the Chinese Communist Party's atrocities of harvesting organs from practitioners. The interview was published in the university's magagzine "Craccum". Below is the transcript of the interview:
Marie-Claire: Give me some background on yourself, what education have you had? You were born in Mainland China, yes?
Poutama: Yes, I was born in China, but came to New Zealand in '72. Since then I completed my education at Olago, returned to Asia to work for a New Zealand company and returned to New Zealand in 2002 so the kids could go to uni. Two of them are actually in Auckland Uni.
You are very involved in a certain movement. Can you please name this movement?
It's not really a movement, it's a kind of a belief. It's a practice of a Chinese ancient meditation or cultivation exercise, called Falun Gong, which has been very seriously, badly, persecuted in China since July 20, 1999, even though many awards were given by the same government prior to the ban.
I benefit from the practice of this meditation exercise. For example, I gave up smoking, I gave up drinking and I am a lot calmer now, the quality of my life has improved and I see and enjoy these benefits.
However at the same time in China, where Falun Gong was started, the Chinese government has been very seriously persecuting all Falun Gong practitioners. They round them up, put them in prisons, send them to labour camps and what have you since July 20, 1999.
What proof do you have that they round them up and put them in the prison camps and labour camps?
There are a lot of people who sent revealing articles with photographs to various websites, so we collect from that. We also have a lot of people who are sufferers of this persecution - for example, there are at least over 10 in New Zealand who have filed lawsuits in the high court to sue the ex-Chinese President.
We have solid proof in documents, and/or from people who have been persecuted. One couple who recently arrived in New Zealand as refugees, under the UN, are seeking help from the public to rescue her father.
Why is he in jail? Is it because he is part of Falun Gong?
Yeah, basically, because he practises Falun Gong. In China, they (the government) are communist and by definition, communists don't believe in God or nature. They just like to enslave everybody, they enslave in order for them to hang on to power, to control people.
They don't just persecute Falun Gong people, they also persecute Roman Catholic, Protestant Christian,
Judaism and Islam, what have you - anyone or group that is not controlled by the China Communist Party (CCP). They persecute Falun Gong, because they are very jealous of the success of this very ancient cultivation exercise, which brings people better health in mind and body, a fact they previously acknowledged.
Why do they persecute those of religion? Is it because they have control outside of the government or...?
I think the Chinese Communist Party fears any crowd at all- ignoring say the religion or other beliefs - commercially, you can't even have something like an Amway party in China, because then you have household parties, and this kind of thing is a gathering. So hey, just outlaw them. They don't let you get into a big crowd in case you come and plot against the government, which is really a dictatorship.
Why is it that more people aren't outspoken about China? What is it, in your opinion?
Because the system is communist, so when you are born, you are born in government hospital, you eat government food, you live in the government housing and drive government cars. Everything belongs to the government. So what else have you got to do? You have no choice but listen to the government.
Internationally speaking, why isn't the UN doing anything about this?
I think the UN has been trying to do something (see article on the Epoch Times website, May 6, this year), but it seems that every organisation seems to be wanting to get benefits through trading, they all want to make more money, ignoring the bad side-effects of this so-called cheap stuff.
Why are they cheap? Because a lot of things like pollution are untreated. The chicken will come home to roost one day over the pollution, which will affect the rest of the world. Look at China today, look at the water resource and that sort of thing - it is heavily polluted. The entire world is going to have to pay a heavy price for it.
I principally wanted to talk to you about the organ harvesting, What is going on in China with regard to the organ harvesting?
Organ harvesting had been discovered within the last three months and just recently an independent investigation by two Canadians, Kilgour and Matas, concluded in their report that organ harvesting was true. Since then, the Canadians and even the Canadian government is trying to get another independent report done on top on what has already been reported. A lot of organ harvesting has been going on in China, prior to these investigations. It is quite clear from internet websites that there are many Chinese hospitals offering this kind of organ transplant, which could be done in a specified time frame, rather short, maybe within a week, ten days, for a price...
For a price? So it's very expensive, is it? Say if I wanted to go get a new heart or something, I'll be paying a lot of money as a Western person? Are they targeting Western cultures with this scheme as such?
Yeah, I think it's quite expensive. The BBC once said they were costing £60,000 for a kidney.
It's huge money. Whether it's targeting foreigners or not is unclear, because within South-east Asia there are a lot of wealthy people who like to get back to China for a health check, or this kind of visit. In actual fact, it's huge business for the government, because they are so corrupt, so anyone in the pipeline, in the system, has got a cut - the only problem now, is who cut who.
Sorry, what do you mean by cut, monetary cut or...?
No, I mean physically, people are actually, literally, being cut up. So they can harvest their lung, their kidney...
These people are living or...?
Before they were cut up, they were living, and alive while they are being cut up. Of course, after they are cut up, they are dead and thrown into ordinary incinerators. The whole body is hollow, they hollowed everything out. Worse still, family or relatives of such victims don't even get to know it.
What do you mean by hollow everything out?
That means they take out all the organs, like the stomach, the liver, the bladder, the kidney - anything they can sell, they will just take it out for sale. And they will just sell them to who will want to buy them and operate on them in the hospital. These victims are practitioners of Falun Gong.
Falun Gong people are targeted to the organ donors?
Since 1999, the Chinese government, the ex-president, Jiang Zemin outlawed Falun Gong practice and the practitioners were rounded up without trial and they were deemed to be prisoners with death sentences. Because they are such prisoners, they have no right to anything and, the amazing thing is, not even to their bodies after death. How we all knew what was going on, that these prisoners were all ordered to undergo tests to find out their blood type, the condition of their heart, just to make sure they are healthy, therefore saleable. If they are saleable, they will be kept in secret. If the lung is damaged, then they can't sell the lung. He/she will be spared, but tortured to death in other fashions. They must sell something decent; otherwise there will be no buyer.
Because Falun Gong, as you said, is working to purify your body and get it going again in a very healthy manner, they will have beautiful organs for these people to harvest.
I think the Chinese hospitals themselves have been advertising the fact they are Falun Gong. I think they deliberately choose them because they know Falun Gong is good for the body, so they know they're all in tip-top condition. I think they get a higher price.
How large is this Falun Gong movement in China?
Falun Gong - after it was first introduced in 1992 - in the first five years, it reached 100 million practitioners. Many of them were high-ranking government or CCP officials.
So potentially the Chinese government could take these 100 million people and make billions off them?
Yeah, I think so. Since 1999, they have rounded up people by tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands; people just disappear left, right and centre. I think, it has been confirmed that this organ-harvesting business was started as early as 2001, or even 2000.
And you've had contact with these people, as you said there's ten here, so you indeed do have proof.
I personally believe these claims that they were persecuted themselves, all their findings. Don't take my word for it, you can easily find out on the Internet and find it yourself.
What would be a good resource for people to look up?
A Canadian website. it is http://investigation.reclirectme.net. [link no longer active. Visit http://www.david-kilgour.com/2006/Kilgour-Matas-organ-harvesting-rpt-July6-eng.pdf instead.] There you have an independent investigation report and from there you can go to other websites, like www.clearwisdom.net.
But you said that the BBC has been investigating and the Canadian report was made, so somebody must be waking up about this?
Yeah, you can go to the BBC website, I am sure they have done lot of documentaries on these kind of things. There hasn't been a lot from the American stations.
Why do you think that is?
I have no idea
Just decided to stay out of the fray.
Yeah... There was another incident during a welcoming ceremony, for Chinese president, there was a lady doctor. She yelled out to the American president to tell the Chinese to stop killing people, then she was subsequently charged, but the charge was conditionally dropped by the American government.
What is the actual process to get the organs from a person?
As I said, they outlaw them, so they actually hunt them, pick them up from their house and put them in jail.
